September 1st, 2021, 12:00 pm PT / Category: Interviews
Can human sellers be replaced by AI?
Josh Blank is a third-generation entrepreneur and Co-Founder of Otto. Otto is the content creation layer for sales and business development, leveraging NLP and ML to improve outbound messaging through personalization. Prior to founding Otto, Josh was a member of the business development leadership team at Celonis and a Co-Founder of Inflow.
Podcast
Transcript
Tullio:
Good afternoon, everyone. Today is Wednesday, September 1st, 2021. This is dojo.live. I’m Tullio Siragusa. I’m joined by Kim Lantis and Carlos Ponce. Hi guys. Welcome back. We are very excited to speak with our guest today, Josh Blank from Otto. We’re going to be talking about sales and the future of sales. But before we get into that and dig in to see how AI is impacting sales, I mean, are we going to be going to need people do sales in the future? I don’t know, that might be what we’re going to discuss today and figure out. So, but before we do that, let’s get to know Josh a little bit. Josh, tell us a little bit about yourself. Welcome to the show.
Josh:
Hey, Tullio, Tullio, Carlos and Kim. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. So, I’m Josh Blank. I am the founder and CEO of Otto and my background, I’m a third-generation entrepreneur in wanting to build a company my entire life, but I’ve worked in sales too. So, ran a business development consulting firm for a little bit and then joined the team at Celonis and then help us scale operations there. So it was a, a really interesting time learned a lot of really interesting stuff about sales and the future of it and exciting to be here and share that all with you guys.
Tullio:
Excellent. So no pressure, right? Third generation entrepreneur, big shoes to fill, no pressure at all. Right. I think we’re just a little bit delayed.
Josh:
No, none, none whatsoever. It’s just, it’s just it’s just I think we’re a little delayed, but I was saying it’s just a little friendly competition ever heard anyone. So. all my dad and my grandpa and my other grandpa, who’s going to win. I think they know who’s going to be.
Kim:
Spoken like a true salesman.
Tullio:
So, when you’re trying to, when you’re trying to impress them about what Otto is, what is it that you say to them? share with us what Otto is all about, please.
Josh:
So, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So what, what really, what we’re seeing right now in business development in sales is a breakdown in the way that people were traditionally selling. And there’s a ton of waste going on within their traditional sales processes and sales method. So we decided to build Otto. And what Otto does is it pulls information about people that you want to reach out to you from the internet and uses it to write personalized sales emails, cold emails, and cold outreach at scale. So, the problem that people have today, and this is whether you’re selling a model, or you’re a one- or two-person startup, and you’re looking to get your first 10 customers, we have people in what they’re doing is they’re sending hundreds of emails, 200 emails, 300 pretty much, and pretty much what they’re doing is they’re begging to get a response. And if you take a look at that, how much, how much waste is in there. So you’re have to find the people that you’re going to reach out to. You’re sending all these emails. You’re going to be disappointed when no one gets it in there. So, we built Otto to solve that problem. And that problem is we’re going to make your business development. We’re going to make your cold outreach more efficient. So you go from sending 300 emails and getting no responses to sending 300 emails and getting enough responses. That’s going to make you happy. It’s going to make it easier for you to hit your numbers. If you’re a sales person and you’re in seat or if you’re just starting out, it’s going to help you get your first 10 customers on board.
Tullio:
All right. Very cool. Let’s see what we can learn today about Otto and the topic of discussion. Who’s introducing the show? I think Kim, please kick us off.
Kim:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you for being here today, Josh, and thank you Tullio, Carlos, the topic of today’s show as chosen by Josh is what the future of sales means for humans. Can human sellers be replaced by a AI? So that’s your very own, yes, no question. Which is it? Yes or no. Josh?
Josh:
Well, it’s complicated, but the, the answer in short is no. There are certain things that humans can be replaced from doing, but in the long-term, can we fully pull a human out of a sales process where you’re only dealing machines, that’s probably not going to happen. And I’m not going to make any definite, I’m never going to say, it’s not going to happen. And there’s been plenty of automation that is going to change the way that people sell, but what people really want it at some level is to connect with the human. They want to feel that level of trust. And over time, we never know what’s going to happen 20, 30, 40 years from now. Maybe humans will become much more comfortable with machines to the point where you might say, I trust this machine, but for right now, we’ve got a long way to go for that to happen.
Kim:
Right. So it kind of goes into the scene that we’ve seen a lot on dojo.live over this past year too. Is AI isn’t replacement. It’s augmentation. Would you agree with that assessment?
Josh:
Yes, absolutely. So what we want to do is we want to eliminate waste in the processes. If you guys haven’t seen there’s, there’s actually a huge shortage of salespeople. And the wall street journal is most of them a month ago, they came in with this article and it was discussing how sales is a very lucrative, very lucrative career, but salespeople were having trouble filling the seats and hiring salespeople. And I think that right now we’re on a really strong, strong job market. And there’s more choice than there’s ever been. We’ve been going out for about the last 10 years or so. So, it’s a little bit of a little bit of an aberration. It can’t continue like this forever, but I think what we’re seeing is that you’re going to, the way that you’re going to be successful in the future is how well you’re able to leverage technology. So, there’s going to be, there’s absolutely going to be a human component of sales and I can see that in the long term, but part of it is going to become who is going to set up better systems. Who’s going to set up better outreach systems who is going to be able to leverage the technology like Otto, to be able to write the most convincing cold outreach at scale, or if we’re taking a look, so Ottawa was focused just on the top of the funnel. So reaching out, booking the initial meeting, that’s really what our core focus is. We want to create the content and then you can take a look at the end of the sales cycle. So typically the way the model is broken down now, for those of you who are unfamiliar is that you have, and this is for more large complex deals. There is for smaller deal sizes, you’ll have an SMB. It’ll be one person that does that, but for right now, what you’re for right now, what you’re getting in most larger deal cycles. So, anything over about 10 to 15,000 dollars per year and up, it’s broken down. So, it’s going to be who can use that. And you’re seeing a lot of movement from some systems to help sellers optimize their processes. And the company I was with before this, Celonis, great company, have had to get a little product for them, learn a lot there. They’re helping what they’re helping sellers do is understand the process and next best action. And they’re using AI for that. So it’s not that the seller is being replaced, that they’re going to be hoping they’re going to be getting signals and the seller can act on it. Not that they’re being.
Kim:
Interesting. So you mentioned Otto at the very top of this funnel. You also mentioned at the very beginning, the ability for Otto to personalize at scale, where does that personalization start? Is it with the selection of the prospects and the companies that you’re reaching out to, or is it once you’ve made that selection? How can I personalize it for them or both?
Josh:
So, it, in terms of prospecting that is understanding who the right people to reach out to. That’s vitally important. That’s not the area that we want to play in right now. So, what we’ve seen over the last – let’s call it five to seven years – is all of these sales’ engagement platforms. And they’ve brought tremendous, really great efficiency grains into the sales process. But what we’re seeing now is it makes it easier than ever to send out hundreds of emails. And as the sales engagement platforms have become more popular, what do you begin to see is that their market becomes saturated. And unfortunately, a lot of the outreach looks the same. So, what we want to do is act as a guide to the human and say that “we think that you should mention this in your cold email”, and we will actually go in and we’ll plug it in. We’ll actually plug in some of the content and send it back to you and say, is this the type of email that you’d like to send? Can we personalize it to this human being? And what we’re building is the ability to do that. But then on top of that, we’re building models to understand what is selling and we’re breaking content down into different levels in different buckets of personalization. So you can personalize at you can personalize at the company level, okay, I’ve seen that your company does this. This is why I’m reaching out. This could be interesting for you, or you’re going to see it at the personal level where you’re able to find something that they’re right on LinkedIn, where you’re able to see it outside of LinkedIn, but also on the personal level. And that can be something like if, if someone were to find me and they saw me speaking on dojo.live, and they wanted to say,” I saw that you were speaking on dojo.live on this topic, and I wanted to reach out because my product could probably help you”, that’s the type of outreach that really, that we’re talking about. So what we want to understand, what we want to understand is what is the most effective content for the person that you’re reaching out to.
Carlos:
Josh, I’d like to ask you something that I’m curious about, hoping hope, hopefully you you’ll shed some light into the matter. Let’s say that I am an entrepreneur. Like, I’m a tech entrepreneur that I’m just starting out with maybe a digital marketing agency or even an e-commerce site, you know, whatever it doesn’t matter, but there’s a, there’s a strong tech component into it. So let’s say that I’m starting out and I have the, this vision, this dream of setting things up in a way that, you know, I get a bunch of really cool tools, you know, for outreach and intelligence and all that and artificial intelligence. And then I put it all together. I set up a bunch of parameters in there. So once everything is ready to go, I kick it off. And then I just have it in automated. And then, and in a way that I’m just going to go and relax, you know, kick back and maybe sip of beer at the beach while everything is working for me. I, and I, and I met the reason why I’m asking you is because I’ve talked to people, friends, acquaintances that have this idea that technologies like that -and that you can get away with these things – So just setting up something in an automatic, just you don’t go to the beach or something in this context, what would you say to these people who have this idea about the fact that this, that they think that this is what AI is about in the, in the, in the whole business development and sales process, what would you say to these people?
Tullio:
You’re breaking so many people’s hearts listening to this right now, Carlos.
Kim:
[INAUDIBLE] Plug in something and go to the beach.
Carlos:
I seriously, folks I’ve talked to people who believe that. Yeah. I’m just going to set up a bunch of parameters.
Tullio:
I mean, those guys on Instagram selling you on that dream, then I tell him the truth.
Carlos:
[INAUDIBLE] I’m talking about personal acquaintances
Kim:
I’ll mix the margarita.
Josh:
Well, that sounds really nice. Well that, yeah, that sounds even better if I get a margarita with it. So I’m all for that. I want to, I want to find the first person that successfully does that because maybe I’ll follow their blueprint for how are they able to set that up. But I think it’s, I think it’s an interesting topic. I think that there’s going to be a certain number of jobs that are replaced and jobs that are easier. So if we’re looking across the entire AI landscape, there are going to be certain jobs that are just easier to do that you can get with the machine. Sales is somewhat different because you have that person to person interaction. I do think that what we’re going to end up seeing down the road, we’re not there yet, is that if the potential to reduce some of the head count across sales organizations, if, if that’s the way companies want to go, if there is a, if there is a shortage of talent that they want, if there’s a shortage of talent that they have, then they’re probably going to see if they can replace that with a machine. The dream of doing that is probably a little further than [INAUDIBLE] think it’s going to be, but we’ll, we’ll see how things we’ll see how things go over the next few years, margaritas sound nice. But I think there’s still plenty of work to be done.
Carlos:
Cool, thank you.
Tullio:
Yeah. I think it’s been an interesting shift for the past 20 years. How most organization have put consumers or users as employees, they’ve turned them into employees, right? The whole idea of self service is really turning the business in such a way where each individual takes care of themselves. And in essence, they’re turning you into an employee that’s, let’s call what it is, right? And it’s been very successful with the product [INAUDIBLE[ that you’re now an employee of the supermarket. Cause that’s you take, you take care of yourself, okay, let’s call it what it is. And many have called it that way. It’s not just me. Unfortunately, with that model, there’s a lack of personalization now, yes, service that you take care of yourself is always consistent, right? You’re only dealing with yourself, but there’s a lack of personalization. And so in some instances it’s not enough, right? I don’t, so I’m thinking like, you know, there’s so much information. I could be looking up information about a company and make a decision to purchase something, right? Even to speak in to anyone. But in some cases that’s not enough. I need to understand a little bit more. I need to dig in a little bit more. There’s not enough content on the site that gives me the ability to make that decision, or there’s just too many choices. And it comes down to who can I trust to build a relationship with, that’s going to take care of me. There’s always the human element. And I don’t think that’s ever going to go away. My question is with more and more automation, I like the idea that you can introduce that personalization, whether it’s company level of personalized level, you’re making it. So it’s not just to hit the button and go and hope to God it’s going to work out. It’s something that it requires the human element, the human interaction. How is that being perceived in the marketplace so far? Are you seeing a trend toward, you know, okay, it’s nice to sell services … is nice, but I want more of a concierge” or more of a trend of “no, no, I want It to be hands off”? Let me just take care of this myself”. Where are you seeing the trend going based on the business that you’re in and the, the conversations you’re having in the marketplace.
Josh:
So, it’s, it’s interesting. ‘Cause we’ll, we’ll break down. Let’s, let’s take the group startup founders. Startup founders are amazing because we love working with them. And then do you want a little bit more handholding, but they just want to get people to talk to, and they’ve, they’ve done this for so long where in so many people have ha have had this experience where, okay, I spent two hours finding 50 people that I want to speak with. I want to sell them my product and I send out 50 emails and I don’t get a response from any of that. So they, what we want to do is we have content and we can help them with some of the content creation and what they should be writing. And then at some point we do enough and we talk about it enough. And we all really evangelize selling well at the founder level, things that sales reps have been doing and sales reps are trained to do. If we can help praying founders to do that. And then they’re crane to use our technology is a huge value add, because if you think about all the things you need to do is [INAUDIBLE] spending two hours going in there and spending two hours, finding people to reach out to, and then having no results and having no conversations from it is probably not the way that you want to spend your day. If you want to take a look at it from a sales rep or sales manager perspective [INAUDIBLE] if the front end, those are one of the most, it’s very expensive to get these first conversations. And if you think about all the costs that go into it, you have to hire people. You have to train people, you have to buy all the technology to buy all the systems. It’s very expensive to be able to do that at scale. So, when you also have to think about the other factors that go into it, people have to hit numbers. They have quotas to hit. So people are really looking to get an advantage and what they’re doing, and they’re looking for an edge. That’s going to allow them to do their job more effectively. And also more efficiently.
Carlos:
I got another one, Josh what I was thinking also, what was that Tullio?
Kim:
You just pulled the Kim, Carlos. [INAUDIBLE]
Carlos:
Go ahead Kim.
Kim:
[INAUDIBLE]
Kim:
How dare you speak while you’re being interrupted.
Carlos:
I cannot, I cannot interrupt the official interrupter in the show. So please go ahead.
Kim:
I think to your point of broadening this, what I understand what Otto is going to accomplish for me at that top of the funnel is the heavy lifting the research. I’m like, “oh, well thank you for this piece of information”. But ultimately I get to make the decision of whether I’m going to use it or not. And they’re still like that. That’s that safety net you have, you will have this … still looks personalized. This isn’t full on automation, but what it’s doing for me is allowing for me to personalize better. And when I actually do connect with someone, I’m going to be able to take that conversation in a fresh direction and increase my ability to ultimately close. And then of course, because you’re doing the heavy lifting and the research for me, I can actually reach out to more people than I might otherwise do. Is that correct?
Josh:
Yes. And we want to help optimize the outreach from an everything perspective. So, figuring out what is the most effective thing that I can say to this person, that’s going to give me the highest chance of success of being able to reach them and get into contact with them. It’s interesting because part of what we did in researching Otto was when we were interviewing people, we asked them to walk us through what is your process for writing cold emails? And we sat there with a stopwatch, and we would time people, if people were writing good emails, it was taking about 9 to 11 minutes on average. Some were somewhere in that range. The high was about 15. So these are the most effective email writers. And we spoke to people that get right now, get a lot of meetings through email. We spoke to people that get a lot of the meetings over the phone in both of them. But we saw that it’s taking people any on average 9 to 11 minutes. And what we’re doing is we’re helping surface everything. So that that person doesn’t need to go in there. They don’t need to do the research. We’ll help surface the research for you, plug in what you might want to say to that person. And then you make that decision. So, we’re augmenting the human experience and helping them not looking to replace as much.
Kim:
Okay. And then there’s this learning feature afterward of “that worked. Let’s try that again”. Are you using that learning feature, like on the individual, me as a salesperson, my company level, or is it an aggregate of all of your clients of what’s working and, like, as trends globally, let’s say?
Josh:
Right now, what we’re going to be looking at is global trends of what’s working. One of the interesting projects that we’ve done is we’ve broken down, like – I might’ve mentioned earlier – the types of cold emails that people get based on the types of personalization that they have. So, we want to say, okay, generally speaking, generally speaking, is it more effective to mention something that this person wrote on LinkedIn in as part of the personalization versus, “okay. Is it more effective to mention, “Hey, I saw your dog, or I saw that you’re a fan of the Kansas City chiefs” as part of my personalization? So what, what is more effective eventually we want to move to become more granular. And whether that is by market, whether we’re taking a look at the persona of the person that that person is reaching out to, or we’re taking a look at a company level, which is going to give you a persona group as well, it’s the direction that we want to move in, but we’re not quite there.
Carlos:
Josh. Well Tullio, do you remember our chat bot?
Tullio:
Used to have it. Yeah. Hang on. Let me press the button first. Yeah. Click. This wasn’t a chat bot. That’s cute though.
Carlos:
This is fill in. This is, this is a fill in for the previous, he’s on vacation and the other one. Yeah, this is not the cat, but we used to have a chat bot Josh, that, you know, speaking of bot chat bots that’s, that’s actually, that’s tied to my next question is when I’m interacting on certain pages or websites with these very clever technology components of the sales cycle, because it actually it’s, I think I consider them to be part of the sales cycle when you’re doing that kind of outreach and gathering info, just engaging with your potential customer. So, my question is, when you’re dealing with these types of tools or options, how do you think that […] what role does AI play when, when all items like subjectivity are factored in, what do I mean? For example, there’s the factor of the, the peoples, the buyer’s emotions or objection, handling, all these types of elements that are so human, right? So how does AI deal or is, or what role does it play when dealing with these types of extremely subjective elements as human reactions that, that you will find anywhere, you won’t find anywhere else?
Josh:
Well, we’re at the point now where there, there isn’t much subjectivity in chatbots and how they’re programmed and what the use for them is essentially to help reduce costs for the company, because rather than having to go through a human to do that, you can go through a chat bot, but a lot of it is, is waste to where you’re looking to qualify what someone is looking for. And you’re looking to sort of keep them away from humans until, you know, it’s worth talking to them. So I think there’s plenty of value in chatbots. I think there’s a lot of value in what they do. We need to get them to the point – and they’re getting there. They’re getting there over time where you’re able to factor in some of the subjectivity – so to speak, but that’s the big focus of inbound. So, if you’re going on someone’s website and you’re answering those questions, those really need to be looked as if told by the company, because you don’t get that many inbound leads. I think every salesperson would love it if there were more people like you that went on chat bot more often and ask good questions and came in and said they wanted to use the technology. But in most, in a lot of cases, when companies are scaling, they’re not getting that type of interaction. So you have to think about the difference between what is the experience of someone that’s coming to my website and what is their level of patience with the chat bot and knocking central human, if that’s what they want versus people that are really going out there and doing some of the cold outreach and someone that might not even know what you guys do, but could be interested if you’re sending the right message.
Tullio:
Yeah. That’s an interesting thing about the chat bots. I mean, think about it first. We introduced the concept of FAQ’s, right. But nobody wants to spend the time to research and look, whatever they’re looking for an answer. So the chat bots really did facilitate what was really the FAQ’s. It’s not really more than that. That’s what it is today. Let’s call it what it is. Kim. I think you had a follow up.
Kim:
Yeah, I do. And we’re coming to the final end of our show five more minutes to go people, but I’ve got one question. And that would be earlier in the show, you mentioned that technology in the sales process is where it’s headed. Right? However, I think a lot of salespeople, myself included, we have this tendency of, like, to have to control things, right? Like I need to check this quality control. Like, I need, I need to do this. So, what would you say to those people in this scale of, “I want to have control, this is the trend, technology is here to stay”?. How can we trust you, Otto, or someone like you, where do you get us to buy in? Like, I want to trust you. How can I do that? Can you convince me?
Tullio:
Kim is asking for a friend.
Kim:
[INAUDIBLE] a person.
Josh:
I’ve never heard of that one before. Wow. Well, a salesperson, not trusting technology. Ooh, that’s well, how I think that must be going on as long as Salesforce and Siebel have been around. So it’s been a while on that. And I, I still don’t think any rep actually wants to update Salesforce. So changes, changes happen over time. What, I think what people want to do is that they want to use technology in their own way. You probably don’t want me as a salesperson coming in and say, “Hey I want you to use Otto. It’s going to help you use, it’s going to help you write emails. It’s going to help you get more meetings with people”. I don’t, that’s not going to work with people, people in sales and the best salespeople I know. And it’s not a bad thing or very strong beliefs, very, very strong beliefs. So you have to get people, you have to get people comfortable with what you’re doing. So we’re, we’re product led growth. So we are going to allow you to be able to generate emails beforehand. This isn’t the type of thing where you’re going to do it, and you can do it in your own way. You can write your own templates. You know what I think some of the apprehension from sales people is that they’re so competitive. And if you think about, if you have a sales team is that you have people and they want to become, they want to beat the person next to them. A lot of the best salespeople I know, that’s the mentality they have. I think the best mentality you can have, is, “Hey man, Hey, (whoever I’m talking to, a salesperson next to me) I want you to hit 200% of your quota, but I’m going to hit 201%, just so you know”. So you want to, what you want to do is you can position it as, okay. You can, this is how you can use the technology. I’m not saying that you need to do this. You don’t need to do this. I’m not going to be, I don’t think what we want is for managers to tell reps when they’re in a sales process, “I need you to say this”, or “I want you to say this”. I think it needs to be a suggestion. Well, you could say that you sales, they’re also financially motivated. So, if you tell me that, well, I can earn a nice, well, I have a better chance of earning commission check, if maybe I said this, or I phrase it this way, there might be buy-in and that’s how it can happen. So you don’t want to give people an ultimatum to says, we’re not going to react to all of that. You want to introduce things over time, get them comfortable and let them know that this is not going to be replacing what you’re doing. We love what you’re doing. And that’s part of the reason too, is that the best rep, those are the people that you can’t replace. They’re people that, I, it’s, no matter what the machine is going to do, I don’t think we’re going to have robots. I don’t think we’re going to have robots taking clients out for dinners or ordering a few glasses of whiskey or writing one too many glasses of whiskey, in some cases. So it’s going to be very hard to do that. So, you want to make sure that you’re augmenting it. You’re not forcing it on people. You’re getting people comfortable and you’re giving them the incentive to do it.
Kim:
Product led growth seems to be the theme of the week, guys! do speak for itself.
Josh:
ELG, It’s the top like these days.
Tullio:
Yeah, absolutely. Well look where we’re up on time. Time’s flying. We definitely to ask one more question before we wrap up, and that’s a little bit about the company itself, Otto. Tell us a little bit about what’s the day in the life for people working there, or what kind of environment or culture have you created.
Josh:
So, I think what you want to do with what’s culture and building it is that you want to find, you want to, you want to take the best things that you’ve learned from every single culture. And I think what you want to do and what we’re creating with Otto is a performance-driven, performance and data-driven culture where we value people who get things done. And part of it is part of getting things done and keeping the focus really on the right things. So, keeping the focus on the customer, keeping the burn rate down – and that’s by design – because you want to remain focused on the number one goal. You know, we’ve had a lot of people talked about the ping pong tables and all those things have changed over the last five years, now with COVID no one’s playing ping pong anymore. But we want to keep people focused. We want to make sure that you come in and you’re here to get your, not even come in, we’re all working remotely, but you’re here to get your work done. And the other thing that we’re building in is flexibility. So if you’re the type of person that 8:00 PM at night, you know, you get your best ideas at 8:00 PM at night, do it. I don’t need you at your desk. You know what? We’re going to have some meetings on the calendar, have the meetings on the calendar, right? You need to go to the meeting if you’re involved in the meeting, although we’re going to try to limit those as well. So everyone can do their work. But if you’re the type of person that works, that’s at 8:00 PM at night, you know what, tell me be transparent about it. And you can do that. I think we need to talk about the flexibility, but also letting people work the way that they want to work. Not if some people want to wake up at 5:00 AM. Some people think it’s insane to wake up at five a.m. So between those two groups, let people choose the way that they want to work, have high standards for people. People tend to, people tend to work towards – and err towards – your expectations for them. So raise everyone’s expectations for what they’re going to be doing, and then we’ll meet it. So, I think there’s a lot of great things that have happened. You know, COVID is obviously been a terrible thing, but I think that we, we found different ways to work and maybe we can help move things forward after that. And I think it’s been using some of the lessons from COVID marrying it with the lessons from places that you’ve worked before and the best thing that they’ve done. And I think the future of work is looking really good.
Tullio:
Excellent. Josh, it’s been a pleasure to have you as our guests today, stay with us as we go off the air in a minute. Carlos, we got one more show tomorrow, right? The, this morning show was, was postponed. So sorry, guys. We were supposed to have a show at 10:00 AM. They got postponed to the end of the month, but we got one more tomorrow, right?
Carlos:
That is correct Tullio. We’re going to be answering one question. That is “how can consumers become empowered patients?”. So, this is where the conversation in the conversation we’re going to be having with David Franklin, the founder and CEO of KnowRX Health and the topic, well, technology using technology to improve health outcomes. That’s what tomorrow’s topic looks like. So, everybody join us tomorrow. Right here on dojo.live at 12:00 pm Pacific as ever and again, stay safe, everyone.
